Comments for American Pentecost http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com Weapons-grade preaching and writings. Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:29:46 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on The Bride of Christ?? by JC Smith http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/the-bride-of-christ/#comment-1561 JC Smith Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:29:46 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-1561 We are indeed God's temple, that much is clear in scripture. We are built, fitly framed together and built up as every joint supplies. The writing of the name would seem to imply that we are permitted access to the New Jerusalem. By saying that he writes on us that name, it does not infer that we ARE the New Jerusalem, anymore than having God's name on us indicates that we ARE God. Smoodock, I am well aware of the Adam/Eve and Christ/Church connection (see my sermon on the Holy Ghost). I have preached this myself. There is a wonderful picture to be had in the idea of Christ as Husband and Church as Bride. But regardless of how convenient a picture it might make, we must rely on scripture for the truth. In Rev 22:16 and 17 we see another answer: Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. So the book is written to the church. John says that the Spirit and the Bride say Come and let him that heareth say come. If the church and the Bride were the same, why would he say that? Lastly of course is the word pictures we have for the rapture of the church and the tribulation period. 10 Virgins, 5 wise and 5 foolish. They accompany the Bridegroom to the wedding feast but they are not getting married themselves. For those not "in the know", the Jewish wedding feast lasted 7 days (7 years of tribulation). The bridegroom (who already had a bride, hence the moniker,) goes at midnight and collects the friends/children of the bridechamber. He takes them and they go to the wedding feast. After 7 days, the marriage is consummated. Prophetically, we can see that 5 were not ready, 5 were. The 5 get taken to be with Christ for the 7 year tribulation period which culminates in the New Jerusalem coming to earth, decked out in the righteousness of the saints. This also flows with Christ coming back for a church without spot, wrinkle or blemish (Eph 5:27). We are indeed God’s temple, that much is clear in scripture. We are built, fitly framed together and built up as every joint supplies.

The writing of the name would seem to imply that we are permitted access to the New Jerusalem. By saying that he writes on us that name, it does not infer that we ARE the New Jerusalem, anymore than having God’s name on us indicates that we ARE God.

Smoodock, I am well aware of the Adam/Eve and Christ/Church connection (see my sermon on the Holy Ghost). I have preached this myself. There is a wonderful picture to be had in the idea of Christ as Husband and Church as Bride. But regardless of how convenient a picture it might make, we must rely on scripture for the truth.

In Rev 22:16 and 17 we see another answer:

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

So the book is written to the church. John says that the Spirit and the Bride say Come and let him that heareth say come. If the church and the Bride were the same, why would he say that?

Lastly of course is the word pictures we have for the rapture of the church and the tribulation period.
10 Virgins, 5 wise and 5 foolish. They accompany the Bridegroom to the wedding feast but they are not getting married themselves.

For those not “in the know”, the Jewish wedding feast lasted 7 days (7 years of tribulation). The bridegroom (who already had a bride, hence the moniker,) goes at midnight and collects the friends/children of the bridechamber. He takes them and they go to the wedding feast. After 7 days, the marriage is consummated.

Prophetically, we can see that 5 were not ready, 5 were. The 5 get taken to be with Christ for the 7 year tribulation period which culminates in the New Jerusalem coming to earth, decked out in the righteousness of the saints.

This also flows with Christ coming back for a church without spot, wrinkle or blemish (Eph 5:27).

]]> Comment on The Bride of Christ?? by Smoodock http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/the-bride-of-christ/#comment-1559 Smoodock Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:13:59 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-1559 Not really, following the logic would be we are come to: 1) the city of the living God, to heavenly Jerusalem and to 2) an innumerable company of angels. Then like in much of Hebrew poetry, the writer repeats the same thought: 1) to the general assembly and church of the Firstborn... and 2) to God the Judge of all. Revelation 21:2 would further define it as the city/bride coming out of heave 'from' God. In your blog you referred to Ephesians 5 where Paul speaks about the husband and wife, but he seems to be saying he is speaking of Christ and the church in allegory (Ephesians 5:25, 27, 32. Furthermore, there seems to be a parallel with Adam and Eve and Christ and the Church. Adam was put to sleep and Eve was taken out of him, and they were 'one' flesh. This was done as God created his image--the only physical image we have of him. In the NT Hebrews 1:3 says Jesus is/was the express image of God. We find that Jesus was put to sleep (crucified) and later he awoke (resurrected). The church is pictures as being created in him and brought into existence out of him. God then presents us to the Lamb as shown in Revelation 21:2, 9. Anyway, that is my two cents! :-) Not really, following the logic would be we are come to: 1) the city of the living God, to heavenly Jerusalem and to 2) an innumerable company of angels. Then like in much of Hebrew poetry, the writer repeats the same thought: 1) to the general assembly and church of the Firstborn… and 2) to God the Judge of all.

Revelation 21:2 would further define it as the city/bride coming out of heave ‘from’ God.

In your blog you referred to Ephesians 5 where Paul speaks about the husband and wife, but he seems to be saying he is speaking of Christ and the church in allegory (Ephesians 5:25, 27, 32.

Furthermore, there seems to be a parallel with Adam and Eve and Christ and the Church. Adam was put to sleep and Eve was taken out of him, and they were ‘one’ flesh. This was done as God created his image–the only physical image we have of him.

In the NT Hebrews 1:3 says Jesus is/was the express image of God. We find that Jesus was put to sleep (crucified) and later he awoke (resurrected). The church is pictures as being created in him and brought into existence out of him. God then presents us to the Lamb as shown in Revelation 21:2, 9.

Anyway, that is my two cents! :-)

]]> Comment on The Bride of Christ?? by Tammy http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/the-bride-of-christ/#comment-1558 Tammy Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:07:13 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-1558 This is an interesting subject indeed.... I found some more scriptures that happen to infer 'building' a spiritual house...perhaps these all coinside together? Eph 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. and... 1Pe 2:4-8 To whom coming, [as unto] a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, [and] precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. and... 1Cr 3:9-17 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are. Also, just to throw this into the works.....here's an interesting thought.... Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name. This is an interesting subject indeed…. I found some more scriptures that happen to infer ‘building’ a spiritual house…perhaps these all coinside together?

Eph 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
and…
1Pe 2:4-8 To whom coming, [as unto] a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, [and] precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
and…
1Cr 3:9-17 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, [ye are] God’s building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Also, just to throw this into the works…..here’s an interesting thought….

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

]]> Comment on The Bride of Christ?? by JC Smith http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/the-bride-of-christ/#comment-1557 JC Smith Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:39:53 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-1557 Following your logic, that the city is the church (as I think you are saying) then angels would be the city as well and God too. The city in my opinion is an actual city. The new Jerusalem is the city of God, built foursquare. The city will be the seat of God's power when he dwells here on earth among men. This is the culmination of God's redemptive plan, to live here among us. Following your logic, that the city is the church (as I think you are saying) then angels would be the city as well and God too.
The city in my opinion is an actual city. The new Jerusalem is the city of God, built foursquare. The city will be the seat of God’s power when he dwells here on earth among men. This is the culmination of God’s redemptive plan, to live here among us.

]]> Comment on The Bride of Christ?? by Smoodock http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/the-bride-of-christ/#comment-1556 Smoodock Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:28:08 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-1556 Hi JC Thanks for replying to me. What are you trying to say then—that the Bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem, meaning its streets and buildings etc. but not the people who make up the city? Revelation 11:8 says Jesus was crucified in ‘the great city’ and later we see ‘the great city’ depicted as a woman in Revelation 14:8; 16:19; 17:18. The ‘great city’ was judged by God because of what the ‘occupants’ had done, not because its buildings displeased him. Perhaps I am missing your point. What is a city in your opinion? Hi JC

Thanks for replying to me.

What are you trying to say then—that the Bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem, meaning its streets and buildings etc. but not the people who make up the city?

Revelation 11:8 says Jesus was crucified in ‘the great city’ and later we see ‘the great city’ depicted as a woman in Revelation 14:8; 16:19; 17:18. The ‘great city’ was judged by God because of what the ‘occupants’ had done, not because its buildings displeased him.

Perhaps I am missing your point. What is a city in your opinion?

]]> Comment on The Bride of Christ?? by JC Smith http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/the-bride-of-christ/#comment-1555 JC Smith Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:44:21 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-1555 Smoodock: Yes, that makes sense. We will dwell there with Jesus. But we are not the city, we are the occupants. Miss Tammy: 2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. Espoused= harmozo (to joint) taken from harmos (an articulation of the body) husband=aner (a man, properly an individual man) This flows with what Paul taught elsewhere, i.e., Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Paul is saying that He is jealous over them and that he has joined them together as one man that he, as a father presenting his daughter as a clean and innocent virgin, wishes to present them before God as a representation of the Body of Christ here on earth. Smoodock: Yes, that makes sense. We will dwell there with Jesus. But we are not the city, we are the occupants.

Miss Tammy: 2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Espoused= harmozo (to joint) taken from harmos (an articulation of the body)
husband=aner (a man, properly an individual man)

This flows with what Paul taught elsewhere, i.e.,
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Paul is saying that He is jealous over them and that he has joined them together as one man that he, as a father presenting his daughter as a clean and innocent virgin, wishes to present them before God as a representation of the Body of Christ here on earth.

]]> Comment on The Bride of Christ?? by Tammy http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/the-bride-of-christ/#comment-1554 Tammy Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:56:57 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-1554 Thanks P. James.... it's about time someone addressed this issue. It's always bothered me how people say we are 'married' to Jesus because I never found that in His Word... After all, I believe He also addressed it in the NT in "Mat 12:48-50 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." As we can see, He never said that these disciples (followers) were His bride at all.....but family. For us to be His 'family', we are also given the right to His Father; now our Father in Heaven too. :0) Then there's other instances that Peter refers to us such as: "1Pe 2:9-10 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." Again, no 'bride' mentioned. The only place that I can see that might give the impression would be Paul speaking to the Corinthians..."2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ." I'd like to hear your thoughts on that scripture.... I believe it's a type of metaphor as to 'faithfulness' and 'commitment' and not being 'defiled of the world' as a born again follower.....not that we are actually His bride in a literal sense..... That's my 2 cents anyhow...whatever thats worth.... What say you? Thanks P. James…. it’s about time someone addressed this issue. It’s always bothered me how people say we are ‘married’ to Jesus because I never found that in His Word… After all, I believe He also addressed it in the NT in “Mat 12:48-50 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
As we can see, He never said that these disciples (followers) were His bride at all…..but family. For us to be His ‘family’, we are also given the right to His Father; now our Father in Heaven too. :0)
Then there’s other instances that Peter refers to us such as: “1Pe 2:9-10 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.” Again, no ‘bride’ mentioned.
The only place that I can see that might give the impression would be Paul speaking to the Corinthians…”2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.” I’d like to hear your thoughts on that scripture…. I believe it’s a type of metaphor as to ‘faithfulness’ and ‘commitment’ and not being ‘defiled of the world’ as a born again follower…..not that we are actually His bride in a literal sense….. That’s my 2 cents anyhow…whatever thats worth…. What say you?

]]> Comment on The Bride of Christ?? by Smoodock http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/the-bride-of-christ/#comment-1553 Smoodock Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:47:53 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-1553 Interesting, but what do you make of what the author of Hebrews said? But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, (Hebrews 12:22-23 KJV) Interesting, but what do you make of what the author of Hebrews said?
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, (Hebrews 12:22-23 KJV)

]]> Comment on Get saved, get real or get out. by Helen http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2007/05/23/get-saved-get-real-or-get-out/#comment-1551 Helen Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:47:01 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2007/05/23/get-saved-get-real-or-get-out/#comment-1551 God does not want clones, He wants people who will take up their cross and follow Him, where ever and however He leads them. The important part is "to do whatever He tells you" - Those people in those churches that you refer to are under a strong delusion. God does not want clones, He wants people who will take up their cross and follow Him, where ever and however He leads them. The important part is “to do whatever He tells you” – Those people in those churches that you refer to are under a strong delusion.

]]> Comment on Those We Leave Behind by sandrar http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/those-we-leave-behind/#comment-1549 sandrar Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:49:09 +0000 http://americanpentecost.wordpress.com/?p=131#comment-1549 Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post... nice! I love your blog. :) Cheers! Sandra. R. Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post… nice! I love your blog. :) Cheers! Sandra. R.

]]>